Strategies for Success: Ty Snow's Approach to Sales and Networking | SOS Ep. 333

Speaker 1: 0:00

All right, we are live. So welcome to another business of sales live. I'm gonna bring in Ty Snow. Here we go, ty. How are you? I'm doing good, mike. How about you? Awesome, awesome, let's just kick it off. I'm going to introduce myself and then allow you, ty, to introduce yourself, because I know there's gonna be a lot of people watching that are probably followers of yours, some are followers of mine and might not know each other.

Speaker 1: 0:26

So I'm Mike O'Kelly. I've been in sales and management for about 20 years and most of that was in the medical field pharmaceuticals devices, diagnostic testing, capital equipment and I made the pivot during COVID to be an entrepreneur, start companies and kind of fulfill my dream of running my own businesses and running my own shows. And I have a podcast, surviving outside sales where I talk about that. I talk about the struggles that you have out in the field and so the business of sales live. These webinars I'm gonna have every Thursday here on LinkedIn and YouTube. I'm gonna be bringing on experts that are still out there in the field. So what I say is not hypothetical quote, unquote, because there's actually somebody still pounding the pavement, still going through all of the process of knocking on doors, getting clients to say yes. So with that Ty, introduce yourself to the audience and let's kick this off.

Speaker 2: 1:21

Yeah, so Ty Snow, I've been in capital for 20 plus years now, started the journey in the glorious copier world, spent about 10 years in that and then cut my teeth into the healthcare side and then been in aesthetics now for about eight years. So running based out of Arizona, so I'm covering out of the West side, so across the world for Mike.

Speaker 1: 1:44

Yes, yeah, we're on the East Coast and then the left coast and we kind of forget a lot of things are on Eastern Standard Time, so we kind of forget about the rest of the country. But if you're just joining right now, do me a favor, put where you're coming from in the comments. I just like to know where people are coming from. I like to meet people in all 50 states and hopefully I can have visitors in all 50 states for these webinars. I see we've got somebody from Ohio, we've got somebody from Maryland.

Speaker 1: 2:13

Anthony, what's up from the Charlotte area?

Speaker 1: 2:16

Really do appreciate everybody who is hopping on, and so today, what we're gonna do and just a real quick note, the business of sales and where this kind of came from was the fact that in sales, I believe there's two separate kind of areas, and I love football, and so what I talk about is the business of sales is kind of like you take the kickoff at the 20 yard line or the 25 yard line.

Speaker 1: 2:45

It's the business of sales is moving the ball down the field, it's building a process, it is being very great at your craft, it is understanding the market, building relationships. It's everything that sets you up in order to close deals. That is what I call sales as a business. That's important, but if you only focus on one or the other, if you only focus on the business of sales, you're not gonna close. And if you only focus on close, you're not gonna have a lot of opportunities because you don't get there. And so one of the topics we're gonna talk about today is time management and being out in the field and how you structure your day to optimize. So, with that said, kick it off, ty, and let's get into some of the things that you do. Explain how you can do that, because you've been wildly successful in your career, so you obviously know what you're doing. Share some of your process with the guests.

Speaker 2: 3:43

Yeah, it's a lot of it, depending on where everybody's out in their career. You know it's gonna change, but I looked at it when I first came on and I wanted to figure out, okay, who's being successful in whatever space I'm in, and I'm going to them and find out what they're doing and then breaking it back down. You get some people that even today they're still just hammering the phones and still being successful. Then you've got other people that just don't. They're scared to pick up the phone. They don't want the whole phrase of dialing for dollars. They don't do good in that environment. So they are out there pounding the pavement and doing that.

Speaker 2: 4:19

So you know, if somebody, when I got into it, if somebody would said hey, back up and figure out where your strong suit is and focus on that, that's where I would have focused on. You know you look at it backwards. Like everybody knows, we're all chasing quota, we're all on sales because we all want to make a boatload of money and at the end of the day, people are looking at how many opportunities do you need to put in your pipeline, how many touches do you need to get those opportunities in your pipeline, and all the way through that. So once you get that part of it figured out, then you break down and go back to yourself and say, okay, where am I strong? Am I strong in the field? Am I strong networking? Am I strong just knocking on doors? Do I have a strong network that I can reach out to and just kind of go through that side of it? You know, everybody always asks me you know what's your typical day like? And I'm like today's not like tomorrow and tomorrow's not like yesterday. It's all over the place. It consistently changes.

Speaker 2: 5:12

So you know, I've always just blocked off time and when I say that I'm knowing that I'm networking, I'm reaching out to Mike, I'm reaching out to other people that you know, whether they're East Coast, west Coast, and tapping into their network and then using those tools to continue to go. Now, I know there are some people that are extremely successful by blocking off days and just hammering the phone all day, every day. You know, then that brings up the topic of hey, you know, the world's not the way it was pre-COVID. A lot of things have changed. You know there's a lot of things that you need to kind of mix in there with your bag. You know you've got to pivot. You've got to change. You got to listen to things that are successful, people that are using certain tools in certain ways.

Speaker 2: 6:00

So I've changed a lot of it around now where, instead of you know the traditional going out, knocking on 10 doors and getting opportunities, now it's a lot more strategy behind the scenes. Everybody knows in the med device world it's not an eight to five gig. If you want an eight to five gig, this is not your world. You know you start at 5 am. I'm talking to Mike early on his mornings and then it's oh, a lot of it's back and forth.

Speaker 1: 6:31

Sorry, I lost you for a second. I heard 5 am. Oh, for some reason I apologize to everybody who's listening. It's kicking you off. So I really apologize. I am not doing that, so I apologize. So you said, you said calling Mike at 5 am and then I lost you a couple of times.

Speaker 2: 6:48

Yeah, 5 am to 10 pm. You know you're working these docs. You know in my world, you know you can catch them early, you can catch them late. You know if you go through it and figure out, hey you know, Dr O'Kelly's best time to catch him is at 7 am on Tuesdays. Put that on your Tuesday routine and then build around that. There's no sense to go knock on Mike O'Kelly's door Tuesday at 2 pm knowing you're not gonna get there.

Speaker 1: 7:12

Yep.

Speaker 2: 7:13

So I just don't love that.

Speaker 1: 7:14

I absolutely love what you're talking about, because you know, it's just the audience knows. When COVID hit, that is the last time I was selling cap equipment. That's kind of when I said you know what? I wanna do my own thing? I had been preparing for this since 2014. Back then I came up with a goal hey, I'm gonna do X, y and Z. I just didn't know how I was gonna achieve it. But when COVID hit in 2020, I was selling radiation machines to dermatologists and I'll never forget what happened to me in March and I had, like I had a bunch of devices that were about to be closed. I was having buying meetings where we were gonna talk process procedure. I was like, man, I'm gonna hit almost my entire yearly goal in Q1. This is great.

Speaker 1: 7:55

And then, all of a sudden, boom, the state of North Carolina shuts down and I started getting email through email. Hey, mike, we don't know what's gonna happen. We're gonna put this on hold and of course, I'm trying to save it. You know I'm a typical salesperson. No, hey, let's work through this, let's stay in communication. And so, as the state started opening up, I noticed a change and I noticed a shift.

Speaker 1: 8:12

And it's wild because when the pandemic hit, I had never heard of Zoom. I had never. I did not own an iPhone at the time, so I'd never done FaceTime. I was like you were saying, I was a big pound of pavement guy and I didn't utilize the phone as much as I could have, because I'm not great on the phone, and it's not that I fear it. It's that what I didn't want to do is I didn't wanna call somebody and then then make a decision before I even had a chance to be there in person. Cause when you're in person, I had the belief that if I was there I could read the room, I could draw them in better, and I didn't know how to do that over the phone, and so I didn't wanna kind of shoot my shot over the phone and kind of miss.

Speaker 1: 8:54

But even in that point I mean shoot. Look what we're doing right now. I'm live on Instagram. I'm not Instagram, linkedin, youtube. You're halfway across the country and we have 12 people right now watching us. How wild is that? Just in three years, that's how drastic the sales world has changed and how you can communicate with people, and so what you're talking about with the time, you're actually talking about the block during the day, but what I've noticed the people that I'm talking to, the way you use your time, the way you can multiply it by doing events like this with your prospects are you currently doing that? Because I know that's the next wave it's getting multiple eyeballs simultaneously, so you can be literally sitting there. We see your fan going. You're in your office, I'm in my office and we're still achieving our goals, which is reaching out to people, let's say you.

Speaker 2: 9:47

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a great point. You go back to pre COVID and everybody let's do these big fancy dinners, let's spend all this money, let's get everybody into a room. And that's tough to do that because docs don't wanna cut down, we don't. If you start at like three, four o'clock in the afternoon, it's tough for them to come in and you wanna get a guest speaker and all that stuff. So now, using technology because they're so used to technology during the COVID time because I was the same way COVID hit and I had a bunch of pipeline going I'm like, yep, this is gonna be good year. And then all of a sudden, boom, those paychecks that were coming stopped and I'm like now, what am I gonna do?

Speaker 2: 10:25

And now I still talk to docs all the time like, yeah, can you do a Zoom, can you do a FaceTime, can you do a Teams meeting? I can do it at six, I can do it at nine. All these times are there. So our day on the Rep side now has grown. So now it's like this morning I'm on a FaceTime at six 10, that ends at six 30,. I've got a Zoom call right after that and I haven't even gone anywhere yet. So you just use it, utilizing the time and the technology. And now we're not having, you're not driving all over the countryside anymore. You know that whole story of the star rep, so yeah and it's interesting.

Speaker 1: 11:01

You know, I built a Rhythm AI. We built a technology around targeting and routing and a lot of people use it and the whole premise is about optimizing your time. And you know it is interesting that I used to have a philosophy of there's still a way to optimize your time driving everywhere, and now I'm coming around to the point where that's not optimal anymore, like you need to have meetings booked while you're in the car. It's very commonplace now and you know if you're listening to this, I'm late to the game with an iPhone. I just got an iPhone last fall. I had an Android forever, so I had some prescribers, ipas and nurse practitioners that wanted to FaceTime me and I said, oh, I don't. I said, can we do? What? Was that Skype? Can we do? We chat? And I was like all this stuff and they're kind of looking at me like you don't have an iPhone, and so I finally have gotten to the FaceTime thing. But yeah, like Ty said, it's not just about pounding the pavement anymore.

Speaker 1: 12:01

I think that's the brave new world in sales. It's not about the volume of getting out and just shaking hands. It is how can you spread your message to as many of your prospects as possible simultaneously. Well, one of the ways to do that is, like you said, not being afraid to get up early in the morning when your buyers are available and folks. It doesn't matter that I haven't been in the field for three years. I still sell to a lot of people. It is about your customers. It's not about you, it's not about me, it's not about Ty. It is meeting them where they are and when they are available.

Speaker 1: 12:35

And you know what, now that you mentioned it, like I have some of my best calls at between 8.30 and 10 o'clock at night because their kids have gone down. They're kind of decompressing and they're so busy during the day they don't have time to think about Mike, they don't have time to think about Ty because they have to run their business, and I run several businesses. I can tell you, going from a sales pro to running businesses, I get hit up at least 100 times a week by people emails, random phone calls, text messages and I'll tell you, it's opened my eyes to what we as sales professionals were doing years ago and how we really have to change. The approach that Ty is taking is fantastic.

Speaker 1: 13:17

Ty, I'll let you respond in a second, but there was a question that came in from Mindy, so thank you, mindy, for sending that in. By the way, if you're listening, please type in your questions and we'll kind of run through those throughout the episode. So, mindy, we haven't forgotten about you. So it says Ty, how does networking help you sell devices? Do you network for leads Always?

Speaker 2: 13:40

So I use the saying whoever I'm talking to, I'm always looking for an opportunity. Like Mike came into his franchise stuff and when I first started talking to him I tried to pitch him some products and it was just not the right time for him. Then, when I network, I'm networking with everybody. So it's not I'm on the med device side, so I don't know where everybody's background is, but I'm reaching out to skincare reps. I'm reaching out to just different people that are still playing in that same space and we're always sharing leads because they're going in there.

Speaker 2: 14:15

You don't know the relationship that they have, that you have and you can help people right and left. Like great example yesterday we're talking to a med spot owner. She's got a challenge with her nurse injector and she can't find anybody that can work on a weekend. I know another injector that's looking to pick up a side time gig. Boom, put them together. Everybody's happy. That relationship grows stronger. So you always, always look for networking for anything, not just focused just on leads, but it's opportunities, it's relationships. If you're in the med device world, in medical healthcare it's everybody knows this day and age, it's all about relationships.

Speaker 1: 14:51

And I had a great. So I joined a networking group a while ago and they said it's about 90, 10. You're going to need to give to network 90% and you're only going to get 10% of the effort back. And so I think there's this thought and I used to think this years ago. It's like this quid pro quo like hey, ty, I sent you a lead. Why haven't you sent anything back? Well, because Ty hasn't recognized anybody that he could send me. It's just that's the nature of the game. And so keeping a scoreboard of what you're doing with other people, it's all going to come back to you. And so I think that's the limitation of enter. Is it enter or intra? Like within an industry, like other device reps, but you can partner with.

Speaker 1: 15:35

Like I used to sell wound care into plastic surgery, meds, spas and dermatology offices. I reached out to all of the device reps and only two of them got back to me and wanted to partner. And guess who I was promoting? When I was talking to the nurse practitioners, those office managers, those plastic surgeons, were like hey, do you know the device? I said I do, I'll send you two names. Guess what? They would get a device sold and they would do a little something for me. I'm not going to mention what that is, but if you're generous with other people, with your referral, with your time, it's going to come back to you. But what it also does.

Speaker 1: 16:11

Think about this If you are a lifer, if you are a career sales professional, you need to build relationships with somebody that's quote, unquote your competitor. Why? Because they might leave and go to a company where they can provide you an opportunity. I say this again and tie I know the aesthetic device market which I was in. I was selling radiation machines. So we basically the offices either didn't buy the device or they bought the device from us. All right, am I? Did you lose me for a second? All my screens just went black. So that's how you know this is live. So my competition was the status quo and I think, if you're listening right now, your competition is the status quo. It is your buyers making zero decision because they don't know where to go. I would rather they buy something that's a competitor and they realize that product is trash and then they come to me as opposed to them just say you know what? We're just going to keep doing what we're doing. That is the worst phrase that you want to hear is we've made a decision to just hold off for now with everything. That's when I realized I did something wrong in my process. I did not pull them through the buyer's journey correctly.

Speaker 1: 17:35

But going back to the networking thing, so you have your networking with your offices, your networking with the total call, the front desk, anybody that calls on the office manager, the doctors, nurse practitioners doesn't matter what field of sales you're in. You need to know everybody, that person up front, that's a gatekeeper. They get treated like garbage on a daily basis. A little niceties, little hello, how's your day, can I get you a coffee? That goes a long way. That gets you in the door. But that's one network. Another network is in the industry other sales professionals that are calling on them and maybe it's not a direct competitor. Another network is within your company and then there's a network outside of that that might be interested. So there's a lot of different networks. There's not just one network, there's multiple networks, because when people think of networking they just think well, I'm just going to network with people that can buy from me.

Speaker 2: 18:29

And that's not the case.

Speaker 1: 18:30

You should be networking with everybody. Everybody you come in contact with should know what you do, should begin to like you, and you should start building that trust Ty. What do you think?

Speaker 2: 18:43

Yeah, I mean the one thing that I've picked up on, even early COVID, but definitely through COVID when it opened up that gatekeeper, you have no idea who that gatekeeper is. Nine times out of 10 now you go into some of these smaller places hey, that gatekeeper right there when she's not sitting there. You never know that he or she could be the owner. They could be a big influencer. So you got it. When I talk about the networking, you always have to find out who it is. I tell people all the time you want to be nice to the janitor because you don't know who that janitor is.

Speaker 2: 19:17

You see the janitor doing those duties at 8 AM, you don't know at 10 AM, when that place opens, what they're really doing. So you always got to just keep behind your toes and don't get focused on networking around a specific. Like Mike says, don't get focused on only networking with the buyer, but look for those influencers, those inside coaches, because you don't know if you get buddyed up with the front desk person or a tech that's inside of there when you're not there and you use them for an inside coach, that's going to speed along the process quickly for you.

Speaker 1: 19:55

Yeah, and speaking of networking, sometimes it's before work, sometimes it's during work, sometimes it's after. I have always found, and I recommend to everybody so I coach sales pros, I consult with companies and I always tell them be proactive, don't sit back and just assume people are going to come to you. They're not, because it and also, if everybody has that mentality, nobody's reaching out. Reach out. I tell you how many times I reach out to people on LinkedIn and reach out in person. I shoot text messages. I expect about a 10 to 15% response rate. So, going in, I've set my expectation. In reality, that about 85% of people are just not going to respond and it's not a personal slight. They might think to themselves well, I can't do anything for Mike right now, so I'm not going to answer, I don't have time. They might have saw it when they're at the gym and completely forgot about me because people are busy. So you have to make a concerted effort. I can't stress that enough. It is about taking action. Everything you're going to do in the field is about taking action and it's not trying to be perfect, it's not worrying about being perfect. You're going to fail, you're going to fall flat on your face. But if you take action, the worst that could happen is you fail, but you'll learn something and then you'll get better and then you try again, so on and so forth.

Speaker 1: 21:11

When it comes to time management, I used to. I used to really focus on Mondays through Wednesdays. I felt like Mondays through Wednesdays I felt like the offices were fresher. I feel like there was more focus actually on clinical discussion and patience. By Thursday, friday, I think people start to get a little burnt, especially Fridays. I thought Fridays were kind of a cleanup day. It was a casual meeting day, like I'd meet a doctor or I'd meet a prospect out for lunch somewhere away from their busyness and their hectic life. Fridays were my planning day. That was my. Okay, let's review what I did this week and let's plan the stuff that I'm gonna do the following week. What is your kind of philosophy on really getting after it scheduling? Can you run that through for the audience?

Speaker 2: 22:06

Yeah, if you wake up, like, let's say, you're waking up on Thursday morning and you have no idea where you're going, you lost half the day. So I go through and I plan I've got certain days where I'm in certain areas and what happens is when you go into these places and if I'm gonna go visit Dr Mike on Tuesdays at nine, after a few visits he's going to be like it's 9.30, where's Ty? So you get them kind of trained and expect you to come in and get those things going. But a lot of it is you gotta pivot, you gotta move, you gotta be flexible, because there's just as much as you wanna say, yep, today's gonna work like this, I've got this, I've got this, I've got that. You get going.

Speaker 2: 22:51

You open up your laptop, you get your phone out and all of a sudden that day just derailed and now it's panic mode. Now you gotta figure out. So you get that structure. That's there and I'm like I can look at my calendar next week and I know where I'm going and know where my appointments are at. I usually try to set them out a month ahead and then fill in the gaps around that. Knowing that I'm gonna have some overlap in there. I know I'm gonna have some things to derail. People are gonna cancel all that stuff. That's there. So if you're waking up in the morning trying to get your day scheduled, you're losing time.

Speaker 1: 23:25

Exactly, and one piece of it I mean. That's great. One piece of advice I also give is become an expert on you and who you are. And I'll give you an example.

Speaker 1: 23:36

When I'm in a meeting, it's very similar to when I'm doing this live webinar. I'm all in. I am physically all in, mentally all in. I'm trying to give it my all. I'm trying to squeeze as much as I can. I don't walk around like amped up like this all day or I drive myself crazy. I decompress.

Speaker 1: 23:55

So after I do a podcast, after I do a meeting, I like to decompress for like 15 minutes and it's all up here. It's not physically, it's just up in my mind, because while I'm talking with Ty and while we're doing this, I've got people texting in, I'm checking out various things. Like I'm always keeping my eyes open when I'm trying to do this. We've already had a couple of technology fails that I don't know how that happened this week. Ty and I have switched sides on the screen. I don't know how that happened, I didn't touch it. But, point being this, when I give a presentation, I like to take 15, 20 minutes at least and I like to run through okay, what worked, what resonated, what didn't. So from a time management perspective, I will block off 30 minutes after a big meeting and I won't try to go book, book, book, book, book, because it's just gonna keep, it's gonna rob my next. So that's me. So I like to make sure that I block off time after a big meeting so I can kind of run through the replays in my head of how I did and give myself a grade, cause I'm gonna be more critical of myself than anybody else. That's me.

Speaker 1: 25:01

Some people are not like that, like I have a buddy. He's a machine. He can jump from meeting to meeting to meeting and he could be on the phone with somebody as he's walking to the next meeting. Doesn't phase him, his brain can just keep moving like that. But that's not how I operate. You need to find out what you are.

Speaker 1: 25:17

For instance, I am not clicking on off cylinders, no matter how much coffee I have, until about 9 30 in the morning. Does that mean I don't start my day in the morning? Absolutely not. But guess what that does mean. I prospect where I'm not trying to book meetings first thing in the morning. Now, if that's the only time that they can meet with me, I will do what's in the best interest of the buyer. But I'm unbelievable from like 1 30 to 6 o'clock. It's amazing Like my wife just kind of laughs at me because she's like I'm like a machine the afternoon I am. Once we're done with this I'll take a quick break to grab some lunch and then I've got meetings booked all afternoon. My brain fires on all cylinders Like I used to be a big night owl. Now I have two kids and I just I can't do that anymore, but I was a night owl.

Speaker 1: 26:06

I used to stay up until midnight every night, and that's me. I work like that where I've got buddies that are like crazy early in the morning, like I can't do that whole, like getting up at 4 30 in the morning and all that stuff. I can't do that. So understand who you are and be realistic. Don't try to say, well, ty does X, so I need to do X, mike does X, so I need to do X. Now, what are you most efficient in? And just try to expand one or 2% a month and after about two quarters you're gonna be like, oh my God, I can't believe how much more productive I am. It's about making those micro changes and being smart about who you are. It's kind of similar to if you're trying to lose weight, don't go on a crash diet Cause you know that's not gonna work. What you wanna do is you wanna just take small little incremental stelps and be the best version of you. Ty, am I on base, off base? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 27:01

Yeah, no, you're right on. Like I said earlier, there's reps that are out there even today that are still just pounding the phone day in and day out. That's not me. Covid made me open my eyes. I am not wired to sit behind a laptop all day, every day. I just can't do it. But there's reps that are in my industry. That's what they do. They do not leave their house, they're on the laptop, they're on their phone and they are making a boatload of money doing it.

Speaker 2: 27:32

I just mentally can't do that, because when I get ready to enter a meeting, I just wanna do that, because when I get, then, like you said, my brain's not there, like I'm mush, I'm not moving, I'm just I'm not performing it at my time. So I'll mix it up all the time. You know you've got some some certain things here, certain things there. You understand where you've, where you work the best and how you perform, and then utilize that and maximize that and then, like Mike said, just a little change here, little change there, and you watch it, you know longterm and it's gonna, you know it'll grow for you.

Speaker 1: 28:05

I got a question from Caitlin Any advice for better time management for those of us that cannot plan a week or a month in advance, because we are covering cases that are scheduled a week or less in advance. So, caitlin, it sounds like you are in hospital sales, absolutely yep. I have to be honest, I stayed away from hospital sales.

Speaker 1: 28:28

I don't know how people are successful in this but, what I can say is I'll answer and then I'll give Ty a couple, couple minutes to kind of think of an answer. But when it comes to when it comes to being interrupted, okay, so I have experienced in my career where I couldn't plan that far ahead because best case scenario we would, I would get interrupted, and I would also have kind of like continuity issues where things would just pop up all of a sudden and it was like fire drill and so what? The advice that I would give if I was back in that scenario, or what I would do if I was back in that scenario, is, you know, creating guidelines for a week and kind of metrics for yourself. And I used to be a big hater on KPIs I don't like the phrase because I think they have been weaponized by companies. But every single one of us has KPIs, and I'm not talking about the BS KPIs that some of the companies have and I call them BS. And when I consult with companies I tell them straight to their face you're covering metrics that don't matter. So the metrics that were important to me and, caitlin, you might have metrics that you know in your heart of heart are important.

Speaker 1: 29:43

So the metrics were for me, in order to grow at 25% or more per quarter, to hit my quota and make as much money as possible, were if I could schedule and have at least 10 sit down meetings a week. So that's two a day, but I have two buying meetings a week and so a lot of things would. I mean, there was a buying meeting that was seven hours and the reason why was because I had a doctor that was gonna buy a radiation machine and it was $250,000. And he was on with his accountant, he was on with his lawyer and he in his bank and he didn't know how he was going to pay for it and we ended up swiping his AmEx and I mean that's the biggest AmEx purchase. He called AmEx and said, hey look, I'm gonna buy this thing, I need to buy it, can you please just not let it decline? And it was wild, but it's finding certain metrics.

Speaker 1: 30:38

And so I think there is this belief tie that if you're not like jammed full of prospecting and calls all day, that it's not a successful day. And so, caitlin, if you feel like you don't know how to kind of fill in the gaps, what I would say is find out what your metrics are and what's gonna make you successful, and then focus on those key metrics in the space between your cases and then, if something pops up I mean just the ability to pivot is something that you're gonna have to be able to do, more so than some other medical reps, you know like, yes, excuse me, it is great that we can plan out. Like I mean, I don't know if I really plan out a month ahead. I don't know if I really had that kind of luxury. Usually it was like a week or two. But Ty, what do you say?

Speaker 2: 31:36

Well, I agree, there's a reason why I didn't get into the hospital the case chasing because it's you can't manage it Like it's tough. So, caitlin, my hat's off to you, because that's it's a tough thing for sure, you know. The best thing I can say is you know you're chasing those cases, so those docs know it, you know people that you're working with, they know that. You know you're scrambling, you're trying to get there.

Speaker 2: 31:57

I go back to what Mike says and I kind of piggyback on the KPIs and Matrix are there. You know, I've seen them at all kinds of different levels, startup companies to multi-billion dollar big corporations. I would just go back and look at you and say, hey, you know I need to make X amount of money, here's the amount of cases that I need to do, here's how much growth I need and here's how many new opportunities I need to find. And you know, set those meetings with those new ones when you can. But I think in that space, you know, like I said, like it's a tough one, there's the. You know I played in a hospital for a little while about three years doing GI equipment and it was rough. So I would love to hear talk to you kind of more about the chase casing that you're doing and see kind of you know what that looks like and maybe you understand a little bit more and dive in. I'm happy to help and shed some light on that if you want to take it offline.

Speaker 1: 32:49

Yeah, and I didn't mention at the jump, like reach out to Ty, connect with me, and connect with Ty, ask direct questions. I mean, you know, I get I don't know dozens of DMs a day for people asking questions on LinkedIn. This is what I'm here for. Okay, this is what I'm doing. I'm one of those keyboard warriors now because everything I do is basically virtual unless I'm consulting with a client here in Charlotte, north Carolina. So I'm all virtual. So I've got time.

Speaker 1: 33:16

You know I'm leveraging technology with, I mean with the cell phones and with laptops and iPads. I mean I can run my business anywhere, which is great and so. But just so you know, like one of my goals is to help people like you, and so one of my missions is to create a better training, coaching, sales environment for the future of sales, because Ty might have a product in five years. I mean I don't have a lot to teach Ty, but you never know, ty might have a product in five years. You know, caitlin, you might have one Mindy, you might have one Anthony, you all might have something that's gonna save my life in 10 years or five years, and so why would I not do my best and why would I not give my time and resources to somebody who could literally save my life, especially all of the device reps in Charlotte. You know I go out and do free speaking events right now for networking groups in Charlotte. Why do I do that? Because I want them to know that I'm behind them, because somebody might have the next cardiac device. I hope it doesn't happen, but I have a heart attack in 15, 20 years. I mean, I'm in my mid-40s, I'm starting to get into that risk age. Something might happen to me where I might need one of you to have crushed it with a doctor crushed it in the hospital and that could save my life and the ripple effect of that happening.

Speaker 1: 34:42

I don't take lightly. So if you shoot me a message and I won't speak for Ty, but if you shoot me a message, I will do my best to respond as fast as I humanly can. Ty's out there in the field, so I'm not gonna speak for him but, like I said, I'm behind a keyboard most of the day, so I'll get to you as fast as possible. But please feel like you can use me as a resource and reach out to me and reach out to Ty and reach out to people. You know. It's funny.

Speaker 1: 35:10

I was doing a speaking engagement this week and a lot of these are young kids trying to get into medical device sales and they said well, how do we reach out to people? And I said, just ask, you know, just shoot a message, don't feel like you're too intimidated or you don't know a person, just send out a message. That goes back to the question about networking with Mindy Just get to know people you know, have human interactions, have conversations, and it's gonna go a tremendously long way. Ty, what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 35:43

Yeah, I know it's. I mean there's one point that comes up all the time and you know, when I win deals and lose deals, I always ask why you decided to go with me or why you decided to go someplace else. And I always take that. You know I live by this line of you know I wanna fail forward, so why we can't win them all, I wanna learn what I did wrong or what I did right and then kinda duplicate that or correct it and address it. A lot of that stuff, you know you wanna just go in and talk to them. A lot of it is. You know it's. I have it's kinda weird, kinda a corny line, but I kinda use a pendulum in my mind so I use it between, like professional and then friendly. So it's relationship building, it's professional and as you get that mastered to where you can take that from professional and go personal and build that relationship and go back to professional without the buyer being interrogated and feeling like they're getting interrogated.

Speaker 2: 36:41

Because you know, I look at scripts all the time that I wrote back when I was building sales teams in 0203, and I'm like what in the world was I doing to these kids?

Speaker 2: 36:48

Like that's terrible, this is absolutely terrible. So now it's you know it's just a conversation like you gotta remember too is, you know, on the capital side, you know when you're going in and out of these doors all the time you're not the first rep that's in there, you're not gonna be the last one. So you gotta be a good storyteller to set yourself apart. So having those networking conversations just open, you know, you trying to build that friendship and hopefully we don't get into the scenario that Mike just painted about needing a cardiac solution, but at some point, you know, we may need it, right? I mean, there's times where I get people calling me like, hey, do you know, doc, at this hospital or inside this network, you know, and I'm happy to help with all that stuff. So it's just stay open-minded when you're networking. Don't feel like you gotta go off the script. That 10 second elevator pitch.

Speaker 1: 37:39

No, yeah, that's, I was about to follow up with that. Ditch the script period, like Ty said, and there was a time and place for scripts, but it's been done 800,000 million different times. I mean, if anybody saw the Wolf of Wall Street, you know. I mean I was back in the I think it was the 80s or the 90s, like those days. I mean I got handed scripts and I'm like well, that's not how I talk. And they said what do you mean? And it said, well, I wouldn't phrase it like that. And they're like what do you mean? This works, this works across the country.

Speaker 1: 38:09

And I'm like hold on a second time out. People across the country don't talk the same. I live in the South. We don't talk like that, you know. And ditch the scripts. And so one of the things that I usually coach my students on is what I was most successful at is have built out about 10 unbelievable, confident, comfortable, open-ended questions and let the other person talk and then, once they talk, listen and then respond. And you can't do that with a script. A script is like what Mike Tyson said. You know everybody's ready to. I lose you back there. All right, we're back. So I'll tell you what.

Speaker 2: 39:30

The excitement alive.

Speaker 1: 39:32

I'll tell you. So I'm going to tell a quick 30-second story. So please, people stick around, you'll love this. So you know, in the pandemic hit, my wife works in financial services and corporate finance, so she has our bomb office downstairs. You know, we bought this house a couple of years before we had kids, after we got married, and we saw this room downstairs next to the kitchen and we're like, oh, this is perfect for a home office. And so at the time I was still out in the field. So you know, my wife was a hybrid.

Speaker 1: 40:00

So she's got the unbelievable office, ridiculous Wi-Fi, and I'm up in the bonus room, the kids playroom in the corner. You can see the corner right there. I call this the man-cove. I don't have a full cave, it's just a little cove and I've got all my kids, my daughters, toys over here and you know. So I have Wi-Fi extenders and all of that. But that tells me that my wife is downloading something big and she's got a big teams meeting on because we got kicked. I apologize, I digress. Corey says bad weather in Charlotte. Oh, that's right. I have not looked out my window in a few minutes and it's coming down pretty hard. So, ok, so back. All right, are we back OK.

Speaker 2: 40:51

We're almost there, we're almost there.

Speaker 1: 40:54

So, mendy, yeah, one of All right.

Speaker 1: 41:11

I feel like Ty and I are old enough to remember the Micro Machines guy. Some of you in the audience are old enough, but the commercials for Micro Machines look it up on YouTube. This guy used to talk at 800 miles a minute. He was this famous marketing guy I mean, the fastest talker in the world. I feel like that's what I got to do right now in order to get this whole thing in before the thing does, but anyway.

Speaker 1: 41:31

So, mendy, you want to know about a couple unbelievable open-ended questions that you use. One of my big questions is the framework of what have you done, what have you tried, what have you used in SpaceX before, and what was your experience? Now, you know, when I walk it depends too is if I walk in and I don't know them. I might ask a question just to kind of feel out the base as far as who I'm talking to, you know I spend a lot of time talking to doctors. Hey, dr Ty, I'm brand new to your clinic and I want to be as respectful as possible to what you're doing. How do you prefer to interact with sales professionals like me? That one question right there. All of a sudden, all their walls just completely dropped down. Remember, I'm in Ty's space. Dr Ty, I'm in his business. I'm interrupting his day, his flow. He's not expecting me and I need to be gracious like I'm a guest walking in. I don't have a right to be there, I don't have a right to his time and I have to be very respectful of that. And then, once the conversation gets going, or once I sit down to a meeting, I'd say something like Dr Ty, I really want to get to know your business because I want to see if I can help you, and right now I don't even know if I can and I don't even know if you're going to be a candidate for what I have today. So I'm going to ask you some questions and just please be as frank, honest, as candid as possible, because I really want to help you. Is that fair? I'll say sure. I'll say great.

Speaker 1: 43:07

What have you tried in the past in this category, this product? Have you tried this before? Are you familiar with just asking an open-ended question and get them to talk, and then you listen. Don't ask a yes or no question in the beginning, because it's very short, it's very abrupt and what it does the person is still going to remember what they were doing before you walked up. When you start, when you ask an open-ended question where they have to think of a complex answer, it immediately shuts down their short-term memory and it blocks that for a second because now they're trying to recall from their long-term memory. It's science, I didn't make it up. There's studies galore out there about language and how you communicate with people. So no more scripts, no more features and benefits.

Speaker 1: 43:58

When you walk up complex questions that require multiple words for an answer, especially bringing up something from the past, they're going to have to use their long-term memory. It's going to pull from a different part of the brain and they're going to relax because they're going to forget about how stressed they are. They're going to forget about that angry patient, if they're in the medical field, that they just had to deal with five minutes ago, or the depressed one that just found out they got cancer. They had a heart attack. They've got two months to live. Remember, we're walking. You know Ty is walking into medical facilities right now where people could be dying. They're getting bad news.

Speaker 1: 44:33

It's not always rainbows and butterflies and so getting them to drop what they're doing and to focus on what you have to say, is the biggest hurdle, and it can also microwave a relationship where you are drawn to or they are drawn to you and you are connecting with them, and it allows you to kind of set up your pace for the follow-up meetings after that. So, justin, you had a question to follow up on Caitlin's about how many meetings do you have? A lot of it's going to be on what Dr Ty says. If Dr Ty is like Mike, you only need to come in here like once a month, then you know what For the next couple of months, only be in there once a month. Listen to what they say. Don't be aggressive and say, wow, I'm going to be a go-getter, I'm going to show them this and show up the next week, because they're going to be like trust me, I did that before, and they're going to say Mike, why are you here? I told you once a month, you know. So, ty, take it away from there.

Speaker 2: 45:29

Yeah, it's. I mean that's. You know. I tell everybody, you know my boss, you know he's on me all the time for quota, right? I'm like, look like these opportunities, why I want everyone of them to close today. They close on their timeline, not my timeline, it's their timeline. So you ask that and respect that. And I always bring it up, like if Dr Mike says, hey, I want to see you, you know the first Wednesday of every month, and I come back in on that first Wednesday and I say, hey, it's been a month, it's Wednesday, what's going on? What's changed? You know, just kind of I make that kind of that quick little reference back to hey, I remember you told me first Wednesday of each month. And here I am again and then just react to that Don't be every Wednesday every day, touching that Like you're just going to, you're going to burn them off, you're going to burn them out and they'll, they'll, just they'll ghost you and that'll be the end of it, and then you don't even know why they fell out of your pipeline.

Speaker 1: 46:22

Ladies and gentlemen, think of sales as dating, use a lot of the same principles. Okay, you know, I always say, whenever I introduce myself and look, I raise my hand because Thai enough, thai and I have been in this industry long enough where we have made fools of ourselves. I am speaking for Thai, if you, if you've never done that, tell me. But we only did what we were taught. And what we were taught was was outdated. And you know, I was taught hold the, hold the sales piece at 45 degree angle, take a pen. And, you know, do this with the words. And I'm sitting there thinking to myself I'm calling on doctors. They're pretty smart, right, and I'm literally almost underlying every single word. And I said, man, that's really condescending, I'd be pretty pissed if I was a doctor. And, sure enough, the second call a doctor knocked the pen out of my hand and he said Mike, I'm not stupid, you don't have to do that. And I was like, oh boy, yeah, I'm not getting business from this guy. And so think about dating. You know, back in my single days I'm not single anymore back in my single days, if I saw somebody at the, if I saw a girl at the bar, I would not walk up and say hey, my name is Mike and you know I used to play baseball and now I'm in sales and I do this, I do that, I'm from Virginia, I have a dog, blah, blah, blah. But that's what we do as sales professionals we dump features and benefits on them, we dump clinical studies, we dump on them. So if you walk in, and that's what every rep is doing, they're dumping because that's what they're trained to do and that's what the industry is training them to do, because there's a formula that says, if you say this 12 times, the doctor will get it. That's not true anymore. It starts to piss them off and they literally will circle your name and say never use this product. But if you come in and you're thoughtful, you're asking about their business, you're not wanting to interfere. It's very similar.

Speaker 1: 48:15

So, mendy, when I was single, the question I used to ask when I was in Charlotte, charlotte is a transplant city. So this doesn't necessarily work in every city, just like my openers might not work in New York because I'm in the South. But what I used to ask, charlotte was a transplant city. So I had a pretty good guess that 95% of the women that I would talk to would be from somewhere else. So the opener I did when I went to the bar I didn't say hey, you look greater. Oh, I love those eyes, can I buy you a drink? If we made eye contact or we were near each other, I used to say what brought you to Charlotte? And that's when the epiphany kind of went off like holy crap, she would talk for two minutes and I'd get to know everything about her and she thought I was super interesting and I literally asked one question.

Speaker 1: 49:04

The same psychology happens when you are talking to a prospect. People love to hear themselves talk. Maybe that's why I started a podcast, I don't know. Okay, but people love to hear themselves talk. If you allow them to do that, you, that person that's talking, will Like the other person more because they'll they'll think they're genuine, they'll think they're respectful. So, opening those great one, those open-ended questions where you get the other person to talk, you sound different.

Speaker 1: 49:36

You, it's somebody that you, that they recognize you, or somebody that they want to get to know and use.

Speaker 1: 49:43

Because they're starting to get to know you, they already like you and then they're starting to trust you because they're giving you information that they're not giving other people and in sales they have to know, like and trust you period. It doesn't matter how great your product is unless you have the top industry leading. They have to use your product and they're gonna hold their nose when they sign the paperwork, which is very rare. I'd say it's like half a percent of products out there are that good and that's the reason why I mean tie. You know this, in the aesthetic world there's like 800 different devices that go into clinics. So and I know that like the devices you have are better than a lot of the other devices out there, but they go with those devices because the sales professional they know, like and trust. So it's not about the product, it is about the person, the professional that is interacting and trying to get them to use the product or service as a solution. So Follow up.

Speaker 2: 50:43

Yeah, one of those questions. You know, I'm kind of on the same line. But I always ask you know what was the process that you guys go through when you're evaluating new technology or a new device, right? So you open that up and not because you don't even know who you are like. If I'm cold-collar and I hit that gay keeper, they do. They know my name is tie and they have no idea. I do not hand my business card, I don't tell them what company I'm with and I just tell them my hey, I'm tie, I'm in the area and I wanted to find out what the process is that you guys go through when you're evaluating new technology. And Then it goes.

Speaker 2: 51:16

But you, when you do that, you got to be able to think on your toes quick and react quick and have to listen to what they tell you.

Speaker 2: 51:25

You know, I know again, back to when I was building sales teams in the area 2000, I'd always tell them you got two level questions, don't move to the next question until you get to second level. You'd always start that. And now, asking these open-ended questions, you get ready for a conversation, listen and retain and react to what they Tell you and then you get that conversation flowing and, like Mike says, they're talking more than you're talking. What they're doing is, if you continue to ask these good questions, they're telling you how they like to be sold to, without them realizing it. And when you get to that point, things go very smooth and you build these relationships with these people. They last for decades and they look at you as a valued resource. Versus the old-school guy that Mike and I trained and worked with early on, that comes in and just you know, I got. I got to get seven nose before I can leave.

Speaker 1: 52:20

Yeah it's just change the finger guns. You know the guy that. You know it's terrible, you know it's. It's kind of the Alec Baldwin from Glen Gary, glen Ross always be clothing ABC.

Speaker 2: 52:32

Yeah, that doesn't work me more.

Speaker 1: 52:33

You know why because everybody does it. So that was novel. At some point. You know that aggressive nature. Some people are like, well, this guy is really confident about what he's selling, so I'm gonna buy it. And then they realized, oh man, just because somebody's super confident doesn't mean I should buy that product. But no, I completely agree with what you're saying. It is, you know, when you're trying to, you know, get them to say yes and you're trying to get them to To buy your product or service, you kind of need to know how they make that decision, because what you don't want to do is you don't want to burn a year For somebody who they want so much social proof that they're not going to jump on board until you got 15 other Similar prospects that have used it. Yeah, so that's a great question, tie, and one of the things that I like to ask is Not initial, not a first question, but once the conversation starts, what I do is I also observe, you listen and observe.

Speaker 1: 53:29

What I like to look for is does that person have an Apple watch on? Does that person have the latest iPhone, or is that prospect pulling out a flip phone? If they're pulling out a flip phone and I'm selling something that's innovative, they're not going to be a prospect. Okay, and so you know that's. That's some of the things you look for as well, and I remember in the in the dermatology world that I spent most of my time. You know, if a dermatologist came over and they had like really trendy shoes, I knew that was a person I needed to talk to, you know. And if there was an older doctor that had like the shoes look like they had been worn and they were like clinic shoes, you know a lot of medical staff have clinic shoes. You know they're more comfortable, they have bigger souls because they're on their feet all day. If I saw that, I'd have to start asking a couple other questions, because when you're starting out, it's about the discovery, it's not about selling.

Speaker 1: 54:21

And what Ty's talking about is the old-school mindset which is still kind of in the industry, is it doesn't matter your first call? You need to be selling, you need to be. You know there's there is such thing as a one-call close. No, not really. And even if there is a one-call close, they haven't even convinced themselves that they want to stay with your product. They might just be trialing, depending upon what you're selling, and you'll never make them a customer. So, you know, taking a step back and realizing it's not about me, it's about my buyer. How am I going to allow my buyer because Ty brought up a good point when they start telling you how they like to buy, it's teaching you how to sell them, but it's programming them to be open to buying your product, because they're listening to themselves. Say if I do X and I do Y, then I will do Z.

Speaker 1: 55:14

Remember that, because down the road, weeks, maybe a month, maybe a quarter, you can come back and say, dr Ty, you told me that if you trial the product with three people and they were successful and then I was able to demonstrate you know white papers or etc. I had the proof to back it up you would move forward. Is that still the case? That's when you can, when you're ready to sell or and you're gonna get them to buy. That's when you go for the yes or no. That's when you do.

Speaker 1: 55:43

The direct question is when you're looking to just hey, dr Ty, you said you were going to do this, is that still true? And you really push it. That's when you push. You push at the time to close. In the beginning, you pull. You pull until you feel like you have pulled the person close enough and then you can push for the close. But until that time and you have earned that right it's not going to happen. So, mindy, thank you for hanging out. Ty. Any last words, man, we've been just chatting for so long. I've had like four different tech issues. We've just earned $400 an hour, ty. What else do you? I'm going to give the floor to you for the last few minutes. What do you want to say before we wrap up?

Speaker 2: 56:25

Yeah, I mean. One thing to keep in mind is that buyers today are more educated than ever and that feature and benefits and all those things that were there back in our day when we first started, you know, internet was barely around, like we were dial up. You know all those things. Now you know, when you're engaging with these buyers, they they probably know as much that you know about your own technology. So they're not looking for that, they're looking for that relationship, they're looking for somebody they can trust, they like and well, you know I boiled all the way back down do what you say and do what you do, that's it.

Speaker 2: 57:04

And disrespect the buyers Like they're humans. You know I, I do a lot of. You know, if I put, if I'm in Mike's shoes, this is what I'm going to do. This is how I want to be sold. You know, and you react to those things and you leave it open like that and just remember it's in a day. They are human, they are a buyer and they are looking for a service and you just have to figure out the correct way that they want to be sold without them feeling like they're being sold. There's a trick.

Speaker 1: 57:31

And what you kind of bring up is the fact that I, sales used to be linear. Sales used to be a, b to C to D to E, to close. Now it is dynamic. Somebody could go from A to C, down to B, then they can go to Eve, they go back to C and sales is dynamic. And so that's the reason why I I mean, quite frankly, that's the reason why I do what I do, because it kills me that the same techniques are happening. But like you said, ty, you're a hundred percent right the complete buyer's journey, the complete selling environment, is 180 from what it was five years ago.

Speaker 1: 58:13

Covid changed everything, and what I say about that is what COVID did. Was it slowed the inertia of what we were doing? You know, bodies in motion tend to stay in motion until acted upon by a stronger force. Was COVID what happened? Everybody was at home, behind their computer, at their TV, and it gave them a chance to decompress and they weren't going to do the same things that they were doing, because they re-evaluated everything and they thought to themselves. I mean, I know this for a fact. I don't know what was happening in your world, but I was talking to doctors who were having hour-long conversations with their accounting department, their billing department. They were tightening up loose ends, they were working on their process, they were forecasting. You know, when they're busy during the week and there's no breaks, some of that stuff slips and so they don't have an opportunity to do that.

Speaker 1: 59:04

But I had a dermatologist that wanted to get a radiation machine and spend a half a million dollars on our top of the line radiation machine. However, he re-evaluated because of COVID and decided he wanted to build up his aesthetic department. He said, mike, I really do think that skin cancer is really important and I'd love to buy your machine, but I'm going to use that and build up something else because I have to think about my future as a business owner. You know we're getting reimbursed less, we have to work harder, employees have to be paid more, insurance is through the roof, so I have to build up robust revenue streams and right now, radiation treatment for cancer is not cutting it and we already have a relationship with a Moe's doctor down the street, so we're going to keep that relationship, and so that changed everything.

Speaker 1: 59:50

And so if you hear people talking about the exact same thing that they did five years ago, quite frankly this is my opinion they're full of shit. Okay, they're full of shit. You just need to move on to somebody else, because they're not representing what's happened in the market. Okay, and you have to evaluate and you have to be fluid. You know, like Bruce Lee used to say, be like water. You have to be fluid like water and realize what Ty and I are saying today.

Speaker 1: 1:00:16

August 3rd 2023, it could change by 2024. And that's okay. It doesn't mean we're wrong. We're just presented with information. Today, in this moment, we're making the best decisions we can based on this information. Once information changes, once you get buyers, market information in the market changes, you have to adapt and you have to adjust. So we'll go for about two or three more minutes. Does anybody have any other questions that are still on? I'm going to give you a second to send this out. There is a little bit of delay from our oh. It looks like LinkedIn has kicked off the event, so all right, so I'm going to wrap up and then I'll let Ty. So I do sales coaching. If anybody in this audience wants to have a conversation about the various things that I do, please reach out to me and DM me on LinkedIn. Follow Trey, connect with him as well. I'm sorry, ty Ty, do a kind of wrap us up here. And what would you like people's takeaway to be for you?

Speaker 2: 1:01:23

Yeah, I mean really, like I said, I've been in this 20 plus years. There's lots of little pearls and nuggets that I've learned over the years and if I ran into myself when I was 20, I would be in a whole different position now. So I kind of, while I'm still chasing quota, while I'm still out there, I'm still grinding. I haven't made the leap of faith like Mike did. Now Mike's doing the keyboard warrior why it still makes me jealous. But I am happy to help reach, reach out LinkedIn. Mike's got my contact info too, but you can hit me on LinkedIn, dm me there. It all hits my phone at the same time. And, like I said, happy to help accelerate some careers. I one of the things that I like is I like getting involved with people. I like watching them grow, I like seeing that success side of them and accelerating their careers. You know, if you're in sales, we're all up for one thing making a boatload of money. We want to have some fun doing it.

Speaker 1: 1:02:19

Absolutely yes, it's all about. I mean, look, it's not money is not what we strive for, but if you do everything correctly, you're going to make a ridiculous amount of money. Okay, and that's what you want to do. You want to build up yourself process, build a network. You want to be unfireable and you want to be. You want to be to the point where people are trying to get you to work with them. So, thank you so much, ty. This has been great. I definitely think we need to do this again. You know, shortly, because it started as time management but then it went to closing and I think this is stuff people are craving. They just want information. So, thank you so much, ty. I really appreciate your time because I know it took you away from the field and selling units. So, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Everybody follow me. Follow, ty, I'm on LinkedIn and thank you so much. We'll. We'll see you next time. Everybody, take care. Bye, bye. Good luck, guys.